The unlikely origin story of your favorite basketball coach’s favorite podcast

Last week, new Michigan coach Dusty May spent a day with the Miami Heat staff and then flew to Pittsburgh to exchange ideas with Utah Jazz coach Will Hardy and Charlotte Hornets assistant Josh Longstaff. May will read any book or study film of a basketball team if he thinks it can provide him with an idea, a play, or a leadership tactic.

And part of his continuing education is a podcast from two coaches most basketball fans have never heard of.

While driving to lunch last February, May listened to Olympia Milano coach Ettore Messina explain the spacing concepts in his attack. Last week, the voice of Tyler Gatlin, head coach of Tokyo Hachioji Bee Trains, sounded through May’s speakers. The following week he would hear from former NBA head coach Stan Van Gundy.

The lessons around the world came from the Slappin’ Glass Podcast, which four years and 201 episodes later has become a word-of-mouth favorite for coaches at every level of the sport.

“I listen to every episode,” May said. “My staff listens to almost every episode. I think a majority of college coaches probably listen to it on a regular basis.

Jeff Van Gundy came across a video breakdown from one of the hosts (they also have a weekly newsletter and a YouTube channel) and was so impressed that he called them up to say how great it was. He has since encouraged some of his closest friends in the industry to go on their show, which is how two obscure basketball coaches who played together at Division III Chapman University find themselves in conversation with Hall of Fame football coach Bill Parcells.

“Everyone is hesitant to go on a podcast where they deal with things they can’t discuss,” Van Gundy says. “They know they are going to play pure basketball. There are no ‘gotcha’ questions. It’s not overly dramatic clickbait, like “who’s the best player?” … They really try to help coaches coach better.”

The show’s guest list includes some of the country’s most respected basketball coaches – Brad Stevens, Geno Auriemma, Rick Pitino, Tom Thibodeau, Mike D’Antoni, the Van Gundy brothers, John Beilein, just to name a few. mention – and just as many big names in the international game. What started as a self-improvement project for the hosts has grown into a talking point for coaches and diehards at every level.

“You can set one up in an hour and you’re generally a better coach by the end of it,” Saint Louis coach Josh Schertz said.

Dan Krikorian’s original plan was to become a musician when he graduated from Chapman in 2007. Between tours, he earned extra money teaching shooting lessons, coaching a youth team and eventually coaching the junior varsity team at his high school alma mater. “Once I stepped into the gym to coach, I was like, ‘Okay, this is what I want to do,’” he said. In 2013, Krikorian returned to Chapman as an assistant coach. This summer he was named head coach.

Pat Carney played professionally for twelve seasons in some of Germany’s top basketball leagues. In 2018, he retired and stayed in Germany to pursue a coaching career. The two young coaches and former teammates stayed connected by phone, studying other teams around the world and talking about the ball. Over beers one night in Berlin, after Krikorian’s band played a show, Krikorian suggested turning those jam sessions into a podcast and interviewing the coaches whose systems piqued their interest.

The idea was largely forgotten until Krikorian and Carney discussed the motion offense a year later at Division III Yeshiva University, which had just gone 29-1 and run a modern replica of Bob Knight’s system in Indiana. Krikorian and Carney wanted to pick coach Elliot Steinmetz’s brain, so they set up a Zoom. Just before the meeting, Krikorian suggested recording it. He had all the sound and editing equipment; if things went well, he could make the interview their first episode.

The pandemic has made it more common for coaches around the world to connect via video call. The first episode of the podcast, published on August 17, 2020, wasn’t as polished as what the guys at Slappin’ Glass produce today, but they enjoyed it so much that they decided to make it a weekly routine.

The audience was initially small — “our moms,” Krikorian jokes — but they ran into some trouble when a celebrity guest joined the show, like Jeff Van Gundy in February 2021. The hosts put together a list of coaches they’d like to interview, took suggestions from coaching friends and then started shooting their shot. To their surprise, they rarely heard no.

“They ask really good questions,” said Alabama assistant Ryan Pannone, the show’s third guest as coach of the G-League Erie Bayhawks. “And as a result, because their product is good and good coaches have talked about it, more coaches are willing to step in because they listen to it.”

Their curiosity and research seem to loosen their lips. Beilein, who has always been guarded about what he shared publicly about his transgression with two guards, explained the learning points without hesitation to the guys at Slappin’ Glass and then praised the questions they asked him.

“I haven’t talked to anyone about basketball like this in a while,” Belien said at the end of the interview.

Most coaches approach podcast interviews expecting to be swept up in story time, but Slappin’ Glass’ guests quickly find themselves delving into the complexities of their methods.

“That’s the ideal for us,” says Carney. “It’s not an interview. Let’s discuss some hoops.’

The ethos of the show: everything a coach does is interesting.

“The best thing about basketball, and what keeps us having fresh and new conversations every week, is that there are so many ways to win,” Carney said. “There are so many ways to teach, so we never assume there’s just one right way. Otherwise we probably would have had that conversation and just wrapped things up.”

Krikorian and Carney go into each interview with a few ideas of what they want to talk about based on background reading and film study, but their ability to listen and ask insightful follow-up questions carries the conversation and sometimes leads them down a rabbit hole.

“That’s our favorite part of the podcast, when it goes somewhere we didn’t even expect,” Krikorian said.

They often take coaches into uncharted territory during their regular segment called “Start, Sub, Sit,” a basketball-centric twist on a common forced-choice play. When Stevens came on the show, they asked him which of the three Ted Lasso quotes he would start, sub and sit. (Stevens’ beginning: “Do you know what the happiest animal on earth is? It’s a goldfish. Do you know why? It has a memory of 10 seconds. Be a goldfish” – because you never have to worry about what someone says about you, or worry about missing an opportunity. “I love that,” Stevens said, “let it go.” Got amnesia shot.”)

Everything always comes back to the game and never goes off on a tangent that wouldn’t apply to coaching.

“We know the coach has 45 minutes to get on the treadmill, or he has a 40-minute commute to work,” says Krikorian. “We don’t want to waste a second of their time on something that isn’t valuable.”

Kirkorian (left) was named head coach of his alma mater in August. (Alex Vazquez for Chapman University)

Relationships with coaches like Van Gundy have helped Krikorian and Carney land some of their best-known guests, but what makes them most proud is that downloading and listening to the show is no longer so heavily dependent on name recognition. And they have been able to provide a platform for a number of talented, but lesser-known coaches to share their knowledge and ideas.

“If you think about it, just like the best players, they move forward. They find a level. That does not always apply to coaches,” says Van Gundy. “Some do. And some don’t, either by choice or lack of opportunity. But I think too many fans think that the best coaches are as good as the players. Not true.”

Krikorian and Carney have created a nice side job. Their podcast has multiple sponsors and averages 30,000 to 40,000 downloads per month. Their newsletter has over 7,000 subscribers, almost 1,000 of whom pay for their premium content.

While their content is useful to anyone who loves the game – not just coaches – it is a niche audience. But the goal was never to be famous; it was to become better coaches.

“In coaching you have to be skilled,” Carney says. “You have to know yourself. You have to work hard. But a big part of it is also relationships, and this has allowed us to build real relationships and continue conversations after the podcast that have had a direct impact on our careers.

During the interview for this story, Carney was in Poland with the German under-20 national team. That team’s head coach, Martin Schiller, was a guest in 2022 and kept in touch with Carney, eventually asking Carney to join his staff this summer .

Krikorian says he’d be lying if he didn’t think about coaching at a higher level than D-III, but he’s living a pretty good life now as the head coach of his alma mater, in the backyard of where he grew up. working on building a sustainable business that was born on a whim during the pandemic.

“The people I can now call for advice,” says Krikorian. “Honestly, it’s a dream of ours.”

ESPN analyst Fran Fraschilla, a fan and two-time guest, says what the guys at Slappin’ Glass have done reminds him of an era long ago when coaches like Hubie Brown and Dean Smith went abroad to teach the game.

“What’s happened over the last two or three generations is that the world is now teaching us the game of basketball back,” Fraschilla says. “Slappin’ Glass has delivered an incredible menu of international basketball ideas. They are the conduit for great basketball coaching information.

(Top illustration photos courtesy of Alex Vasquez and @ralf.zimmermann.fotografie)